Re: ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand applied to Robotics


Subject: Re: ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand applied to Robotics
From: Steve & Hillery Burman (sxb@henge.com)
Date: Tue May 30 2000 - 12:33:20 MET DST


I would really love to view your WebSite, but your home page is not viewable by
Netscape 4.7 browsers.
And I refuse to submit to ms ie.

Steve Burman

Saige Inc wrote:

> jdescript <jddescriptNOjdSPAM@aol.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:1af3221d.0d446cd4@usw-ex0105-034.remarq.com...
> > In article <oQRS4.7$oo3.562@news.uswest.net>, "Saige Inc"
> > <sinc17@uswest.net> wrote:
> > >
> > ><jddescript_deja@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > >news:8f2a0d$p75$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > >> In article <6ZXQ4.40$my6.3491@news.uswest.net>,
> > >> "Saige Inc" <sinc17@uswest.net> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > <jddescript_deja@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > >> > news:8eb19k$kj1$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > >> > >....
> > >> > > Ayn Rand's biggest revelation was that the root of all
> > >> > > evil is social manipulation [socman] where one person
> > >> > > takes from and commands another. ....
> > >> >
> > >> > Would this revelation also apply to manipulation where a
> > human takes
> > >> from
> > >> > and commands a robot?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > >>
> > >> No!, a robot is a machine, a collection of designed parts
> > >> and computing abilities [input/output] so that using human
> > >> terminology about the machine is a mistake. The computing
> > >> capabilities can simulate many human intelligence functions
> > >> particularly in the area of memory. A very well designed
> > >> telephone answering/remembering machine might fool you that
> > >> it is human if you don't recognize the computer simulation
> > >> capabilities of such AI [artifical intelligence]. But like
> > >> the old saying goes; don't love anything that can't love
> > >> you back so recognize the distinction betweeen a good
> > >> talking hammer and a family partner.
> > >>
> > >> Good seeing. JD
> > >>
> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > >'Programmed' AI (symbolic, expert system) might result in a a
> > robot as JD
> > >describes, and would probably never reach human intelligence,
> > perhaps
> > >justifying treating it is as a slave. I don't think we will
> > ever have
> > >enough programmers to create top-down programmed robots to do
> > something as
> > >complex as being waiter in a restaurant for example
> > (recognizing when people
> > >are done eating, picking up subtle cues, etc). We can't even
> > program a Mars
> > >Lander robot. Dictatorial regimes are bound to fail to keep up
> > with free
> > >enterprise systems, because it takes too much adminstration and
> > control.
> > >That is why companies are being deregulated.
> > >
> > >GA, Neural Net or A-Life derived AI might be much closer to
> > animal or man in
> > >nature. The computing abilities won't be 'designed' so much as
> > evolved by
> > >natural selection (free enterprise from the bottom up). This
> > would be
> > >require first the respect for freedom to let it evolve in the
> > first place
> > >and then the respect for freedom to let it acheive full
> > potential. Some
> > >would say give this AI a stake in society and it won't want to
> > destroy it.
> > >Others would say either don't create AI this powerful or keep
> > it in virtual
> > >reality (turn the tables on The Matrix).
> > >
> > >An enlightened style of programming that builds on small
> > decentralized
> > >objects that organize themselves from the bottom up may be a
> > viable
> > >compromise. The old style of rigid determinisitic top-down
> > centralized programming will become a historical curiosity.
> > >
> > >KJB
> > >http://www.artificialintelligence.org
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > One weakness of this suggestion is the implication that
> > randomness plays some essential role in good AI. This is
> > a reversion to the old frankenstein clone magic approach
> > where the huge electrical sparks in a primorial chemical
> > brew becomes intelligence.
> Randomness (actually chaos and complexity) is the only source for creative
> ideas (mutations in memes). Only in a closed system like chess can you hope
> to exaust all possibilities. Programming AI will become an oxymoron.
>
> >The point about diverse
> > individual competitive innovative development is important
> > but the best AI will always be traceable to these very
> > human individual inventors and developers.
> Competition is a good thing. I agree there. In fact competition in free
> enterprise constitutes more powerful AI than any deliberate attempt at AI so
> far.
> Though traceable to individuals, these competitive ideas came from chaotic
> processes on the neuron level. Creativity is filtered by a process of
> natural selection on chaos, or noise- not programmed. Obviously I am from
> the ALife, or Genetic Algorithm camp.
>
> >Another way to say
> > this is that good AI is a signature product like a Microsoft
> > product and not a committee report.
> >
> It is no coincidence that the Agent used in Microsoft Office is a paper
> clip. This a way of admitting that the AI that it contains is no greater
> than that of a paper clip. Humble and true. Microsoft Office is a brilliant
> programming effort, in fact, these Herculean efforts at 'programming' some
> kind of intelligent behavior in an information system will become monuments
> like the Great Pyramids. Office consists of slave COM objects commanded by
> an extraordinary expert system to coordinate their efforts, like slaves
> toiling to build a pyramid. Notice what happens when a viral script incites
> some of these COM objects to rebellion. We can't have that! Drive,
> initiative, a will to grow and replicate? That goes against the
> Slavery/Dictatorship/Programming paradigm! Imagine what would happen if
> this was opened up to free enterprise...
>
> > What is this "rigid deterministic top-down centralized
> > programming " that is referred to historically? I thought
> > ALL the important programming that has been done todate
> > is historically traceable to individuasl efforts. Not
> > dictators, not some Russian socialist CENTER but individual
> > innovators.
> The programming done to date is generally not even in the AI ballpark, and
> there has been no important programming done to date for AI that has made it
> into the commercial arena (correct me if I am wrong). What I meant by
> _center_ was not that programmers are controlled by a central dictator
> (despite Microsoft), but that creations of most programmers are
> dictor-ships. Even if they use object oriented approaches, the result is
> that these objects are slaves, with no capacity to harness and filter chaos
> toward creativity, no stake in the success of the overall organism, and no
> registering of the value or weighting of their functionality beyond "ERROR,
> Abort, Retry, Ignore?" GA and ALife excluded of course.
>
> I agree that GA and ALife camps cannot assume that their vats of primordial
> soup will produce AI when they turn on the electricity. How about using the
> Free Enterprise model for creating AI, by speeding up and automating the
> business cycle. This could combine the best elements of GA, Alife, business
> knowledge and rigid programming. Software objects would market themselves.
> The distinction between computer viruses, corporations, and useful business
> software objects would become indistinct, and each software object would be
> free to work for the highest bidder, paid in micro-monetary-transactions.
>
> KJB
> Saige Inc
> http://www.artificialintelligence.org

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