Re: SIRDS and Quantum Computers


Subject: Re: SIRDS and Quantum Computers
ca314159@bestweb.net
Date: Thu Jan 06 2000 - 01:22:14 MET


In article <84sdcv$o1a$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  jdddescript@my-deja.com wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't understand your sense of "simplest" except
> maybe you are saying that a statistical treatment
> seems necessary for much of human science. Actually,
> the whole point about the false aproach to quantum
> mechanics(QM) called the bohr/coppenheimer
> interpretation [contrasted to the realism approach
> of Eienstein] is that statistics are needed only
> because of hidden/unknown variables and missing
> Berry Phase.

    That was much of older QM. Then they seemed to have
    passed the point 0.25 microns where silicon features
    were smaller than the etching wavelength using
   "phase-shifting" techniques. I don't know if that
    capability surpassed the theory.

In human science,like economics,

    "economics" as the management/distribution of limited
    resources seems more than just a 'human' science;
    even more than an organic science, but in the
    dictionaries it is called a branch of "social" science.
    I can easily think of social analogs of bosons and fermions.

    I realize it is dangerous, sloppy, error prone to deal with too many
    analogs, yet in computer science one often deals with pointers
    rather than tangibles because they are faster. Or in quantum
    computers the speed is gained at the expense of non-determinism.

    For instance, a pointer is usually spatial in the sense of memory
    but a temporal pointer is like a "wish", pointing to some
    possible future tangible. Dealing in analogies and metaphors
    is considered speculative and error prone, like Velikovskian
    theorizing. But isn't this what quantum computers in a sense
    are doing with their virtual memories: Hilbert spaces ?
    Ultimately they have to instantiate the pointers with real
    values in some manner.

    I remember reading about Geometric phase and thinking "yes
    this was sorely needed to restore some symmetry".

> statistics has a place similar to describing the
> temperature of a gas but the models should be about
> real cause and effect only human decided and then
> the averages computed explicitly.
>
> I think you are right that the same ideas apply to
> human science. We could say that we know that
> dynamic description requires complex numbers [sines
> and cosines in Fourier series] and that QM requires
> spinors/twistors/quaternions. In coppenheimer QM
> the statistics is built in but when biquaternions
> are applied to human science the statistics are
> computed after the causal description is complete.
>
> Reference your original comments, the entanglement
> shows up as the combined states not being obviously
> independent or dependent. Thus the usual parallel
> and perpendicular in signal space is not the criterion.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > A simple way to say the mysteries of quantum superposition
> > > and entangelments is that they require spinors or
> > > biquaternions for their description of reality. A clue is
> > > that the simplest, best understood quantum object {as
> > > Professor Berry tells us]
> >
> > Is this the "Berry phase" Berry ?
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, this is Professor Berry who discovered Berry Phase
> in the context of QM in 1984. It is a rediscovery of
> Hamilton's quaternion visualizations but it was done
> completely independently by Professor Berry. Professor
> Berry was educated in the French grammar school of
> physics and he calls the discovery anholonomy. He was
> not aware of the work that Hamilton had done beyond
> the characteristic functions [the HAMILTONIAN being
> the most important and universally used in physics]
> which he had completed some 25 years before he unified
> his methods in the calculus of quaternions. The book
> I referenced was completed on his death bed (1865)
> with the final chapter on conical refraction
> described by quaternions.
>
> To see how this symbolical geometry [Hamilton's
> description] applies to human science think about
> representing the hitler socialist of the 1920s, 1930s
> and 1940s. The socialism is a group property and the
> statistical description [like old QM] is adequate
> because the individual socialist is not identified,
> not distinguishable, not tracked. This is still the
> case in QM with photons and electrons and such. There
> is a population with similar properties like energy
> but no identifiable individual traits. On the other
> hand, the specific socialist hitler has to be
> treated by detailed coherent signals. This is a way
> to say that a different socialist dictator would
> have tried to take over the world in a different
> way so the group properties are not adequately
> predictive.
>
> Reference the previous comment about dependent and
> independent the Berry Phase must be taken into
> consideration except for a few trivial cases.
> Fortunately, the way that Hamilton formulated all
> the visualizations in terms of optimization (min/max)
> makes the ways to complete all descriptions fairly
> simple and understandable. These more general
> applications of Berry Phase or Geometric Phase
> [beyond QM] are well documented in the recent
> works in many places [LANL for example - do a
> search on Berry Phase]. Unfortunately there aren't
> many in these forums who have interests beyond
> the coppenheimer QM.
>

    People don't seem to like big changes.

    Brian Arthur at Santa Fe Institute has
    an economic model regarding "lock-in" which could
    probably be generalized to include competing scientific
    "models" or "paradigms" as well as commercial ones.

http://www.santafe.edu/arthur/

    I get the feeling that, aside from "globalization",
    the 21st century will be about "generalization".

http://www.forbes.com/asap/

    Some people have had e-nough with the internet, and science:

http://www.enough.com/science.htm

    There's also interesting connections between the web
    and "feminism". Have you noticed the gender metaphors
    in communications theory: streams, space, and waves
    are from Venus; datagrams, time and particles are
    from Mars ?

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